In this episode, you’ll hear about:

• What the 2019 “3 Billion Birds” study really revealed, and how researchers combined decades of data to detect the losses

• Which bird groups and regions have been hit hardest and why some familiar species are suddenly in trouble

• How policymakers and the public have responded so far, and which conservation actions actually move the needle

The genesis of eBird and how a simple idea became a global tool for tracking birds (and helped make this science possible)

• 00:09 - The Decline of Bird Populations

• 09:19 - Understanding the Decline of North American Birds

• 18:30 - The Impact of Chemical Compounds on Insect Populations

• 21:30 - The Impact of Banning Harmful Chemicals on Bird Populations

• 31:41 - The Impact of Domestic Cats on Bird Populations

  Timestamp Disclosure
  These timestamps were generated using AI and may contain errors or omissions. They are provided for accessibility and reference purposes only and may not perfectly reflect the original audio.

Dr. John Fitzpatrick (Excerpt)
The idea that we've lost something close to 30% of the breeding birds in North America over just 50 years really brings home the fact that we're in this. We're in danger of being in this huge mass extinction period that otherwise is a mythical feature of the distant past and earth.

Dr. Scott Taylor
It sounds cliche, but it's hard to notice something change unless it's very drastic and something close to home. For me, one of the biggest changes to the place I grew up was the development of a subdivision.

As a kid, I had free reign of the cedar forests that blanket the shoreline of Lake Huron just south of our house. The road turned from tar and chip to gravel and eventually to a well worn footpath through the woods. Things have changed there a lot.

Where there was once a dense forest, there are now million dollar homes. The lots have been stripped of their trees and people have put in lawns.

It's much rarer now to see a ruffed grouse or a pileated woodpecker, both species that favor dense forests to urban settings. And this is an example from my life, but I'm sure you can think of your own. Habitats across the world are being lost at alarming rates.

And as they disappear, so do the birds and other creatures that use them. The consequences of this add up to numbers that are hard to comprehend. Which brings us to today's okay, but how do you lose 3 billion birds?

To tackle this hard to comprehend loss, we'll talk with Dr. John Fitzpatrick, former director of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology and one of the brains behind modern birding. Both ebird and Merlin were developed while John was director of the lab.

It's one of those numbers that's hard to even wrap your head around. Three billion birds gone.

Since 1970, North America has lost nearly a third of its total bird population. That's not just a few rare species going extinct.

It's common ones, the ones we grew up seeing out the window, declining. The background characters of our daily lives. Red winged blackbirds, meadowlarks, sparrows and warblers.

Somewhere between the malls and highways and pesticides and light pollution, the skies got a lot quieter.

And the thing is, most of us didn't even notice because the loss wasn't sudden, it wasn't dramatic. It was slow, sneaky and staggeringly widespread.

This episode isn't about despair, it's about understanding. We'll look at what the data actually shows, why birds are declining and what it means for ecosystems, agriculture, and yes, us.

Because birds aren't just pretty, they pollinate they control pests. They distribute seeds. They're indicators of a healthy planet. And right now, the alarm is going off. Stay tuned.

All right, so welcome back, everyone. I'm excited today to have Fitz with us to talk about, in the broadest sense, bird conservation. Thanks for joining us.

Dr. John Fitzpatrick
Oh, it's great to be here. It's great to see you, Scott, and happy to be part of this.

Dr. Scott Taylor
Yeah, it's awesome to. Awesome to connect after having spent some time together at the lab of O. For sure.

And I wanted to start off, I guess, just with this study that came out when you were director of the lab. So you were director of the lab for, and correct me if I'm wrong, 26 years.

That's right, 26 years directing this for me before I started there, this mythical place, the Lab of Ornithology on Sapsucker Woods Road.

Towards the end of your time as director, this study came out that highlighted that, you know, we've lost around 3 billion birds in just North America since the 1970s.

And I was curious, what were your first reactions when that research team came to talk to you about their findings?

Dr. John Fitzpatrick
Well, it was first. It was stunning.

And as you might remember or might know, that study was actually several years in the making. It was a collaborative effort between a bunch of lab of ornithology scientists, plus colleagues in Canada and others around the US.

And the initial results just seemed too staggering. So there was a lot of revisiting the data, checking on the data.

Reviewers for certain of the initial submissions were skeptical about methods.

And so there was actually a lot back to the drawing table, in part because it was such a stunning number, but everything got refined statistically to the point where we could really believe it from several different sources.

And the reaction that I had was parallel with the reaction that the world had.

I mean, it made the front page papers and magazine headlines, certainly, as it deserved to.

The idea that we've lost something close to 30% of the breeding birds in North America over just 50 years really brings home the fact that we're in danger of being in this huge mass extinction period that otherwise is a mythical feature of the distant past and Earth.

And of course, the immediate response on everybody's part are two. Number one, why? And number two, what do we do about this?

And so that's really what we set about trying to work on after that 2019 publication.

Dr. Scott Taylor
People listening might not know that it takes a while to get Science published. You have to be very confident in what you're saying and often come at things from different angles.

So how did the team approach that with this paper?

Dr. John Fitzpatrick
Some reviewers, the way science works in its best possible context, bring up several really important things that were either not considered or where the methods allowed biases to creep in.

Interestingly, one of the things that I remember being specifically an issue in that paper was how to graphically display the results.

Some of the reviewers comments, and frankly some of my own, had to do with not seeing the graphs illustrating the thing clearly enough.

So there was actually a fair amount of time just getting the physical presentation of the data such that it could be viewed by anybody from the professional science community down to the general public.

Dr. Scott Taylor
So what was it like to be the director of this place that people look to for science of birds, but also appreciation and conservation of birds, at a time when you had to tell everyone the last 50 years have been extremely bad for breeding birds in North America?

Dr. John Fitzpatrick
Your question gives me goosebumps, frankly, because it was pretty darn exciting.

As a scientist, one of my biggest hopes for the Cornell Lab of Ornithology was to increase its impact on the world as a result of really deep, hard hitting scientific research.

This particular effort crossed the threshold in our ability to use the NEXRAD radar system to actually count the number of flying objects migrating north and south.

And combining that with more traditional methods like the breeding bird survey independently evaluating bird numbers was one of the most exciting features of this discovery.

Dr. Scott Taylor
It's interesting to think that when NEXRAD was established, no one imagined it could be used to evaluate bird migration.

Dr. John Fitzpatrick
That's right. Now people treat the weather as noise so we can see the interesting stuff, and that's birds.

Dr. Scott Taylor
The first time I ever saw birds on radar it was shocking. You can see them taking off during migration. I show that to my students and they're always skeptical.

Dr. John Fitzpatrick
The coolest ones are swallow roosts that emerge suddenly from nothing, these expanding circles. It's really beautiful.

Dr. Scott Taylor
With respect to this drastic decline, which groups or regions have been hardest hit?

Dr. John Fitzpatrick
One of the most important features of the results was that the decline was not equal across birds.

Grassland and arid land birds were declining precipitously, while waterfowl were increasing.

And when you look back, governments invested heavily in wetland protection. And lo and behold, if you invest in habitat, populations respond.

Birds are just like ducks. If you invest in the habitats they require, they respond.

The ones in the most trouble live in habitats that have been ditched, drained, mowed over and plowed.

Dr. Scott Taylor
Can you talk a little bit about eBird?

Dr. John Fitzpatrick
We invented eBird before the year 2000, launched it in 2002, and it went global in 2010.

Today we receive over two million checklists every month from every country in the world.

We can now map distributions of nearly every bird species week by week across the planet.

We are now seeing alarming declines in common aerial insectivores like barn swallows and tree swallows.

The suspicion, and now the data, point toward pesticides, especially neonicotinoids, reducing insect populations.

Dr. Scott Taylor
I notice it on my windshield too. It's not the same as when I was a kid.

Dr. John Fitzpatrick
We're now seeing declines even in remote pristine habitats like the Amazon.

In some places, common birds are simply gone.

There is no place on Earth where raindrops are free of human-introduced chemicals.

This raises the question: what do we do about it?

Dr. Scott Taylor
What the hell do we do about it?

Dr. John Fitzpatrick
We cannot give up on policy.

When DDT was banned, birds like bald eagles and peregrine falcons rebounded quickly.

Birds are capable of rapid recovery when we change our behavior.

Dr. Scott Taylor
Birds seem like a powerful tool for influencing public and policy response.

Dr. John Fitzpatrick
The positives are that bird interest is growing worldwide.

The negative is the myth that birds can just fly somewhere else if habitat is lost.

You cannot keep packing birds into shrinking habitat.

Urban sprawl and industrial agriculture are driving declines in even the most common species.

Dr. Scott Taylor
My dad became a birder after retirement and now notices habitat loss everywhere.

Dr. John Fitzpatrick
eBird changes how people see numbers and long term trends.

Dr. Scott Taylor
When you conceptualized eBird, did you imagine this scale?

Dr. John Fitzpatrick
No. Not even close.

It fundamentally changed how we understand biodiversity.

Dr. Scott Taylor
Merlin has done that too.

Dr. John Fitzpatrick
It changes lives.

Dr. Scott Taylor
We didn’t talk about cats.

Dr. John Fitzpatrick
Cats are subsidized recreational killers.

They are one of the major predators of birds worldwide.

Dr. Scott Taylor
Anyone who says “not my cat” is wrong.

Dr. John Fitzpatrick
If it goes outside, it kills.

Dr. Scott Taylor
So what myth do you want to call BS on?

Dr. John Fitzpatrick
The idea that birds are safe because they can fly.

That's pure BS.

Dr. Scott Taylor
It's been really great chatting. Thanks for joining us.

Dr. John Fitzpatrick
Always great to talk about birds. Congratulations on a cool podcast.

Dr. Scott Taylor
Birds are dinosaurs, and around here we like our snacks.

Today's dinosaur nugget is that massive bird loss can happen right under our noses.

When we treat habitat loss like no big deal, birds can't just move on.

Smart policy and habitat protection can turn it around.

If you loked this episode, leave a comment like and sThat's a wrap on this week's episode. Okay, but how do you lose 3 billion birds?

If you liked this episode, leave a comment, like and subscribe. We’ll catch you next time. Byeee.

Okay, But… Birds is hosted by Scott Taylor with production and creative by Zach Karl.

Transcript Disclosure
This transcript was generated using AI-assisted transcription and may contain errors or omissions. Please refer to the audio or video episode for the most accurate representation.